The team will be;

Almunia

Sagna, Gallas, Kolo, Clichy
Theo (if fit), Cesc, Denilson, Nasri
Diaby
Nic

The team should be

Almunia

Sagna, Gallas, Djourou, Clichy
Theo, Ramsay, Cesc, Nasri
Diaby
Nic

[quote]Theo, Ramsay, Cesc, Nasri[/quote]

God no.

Might have a point about Djourou. I'm happy with the midfield/attack of the first one, there is a lot of different kinds of players in there which should give us plenty of options.

[quote]God no.[/quote]

well you are disputing one player

Ramsey v Denilson

And for me that is currently a no-brainer

So we are miles apart

Ramsey inexperienced? Is that your concern? Well Denilson is hardly experienced. As for the abilities of the 2 players, I guarantee in 5 years time, if you had the same debate, you would be amazed we even stopped to discuss it. Ramsey is on a different planet imo.

[quote]Ramsey inexperienced? Is that your concern? Well Denilson is hardly experienced. As for the abilities of the 2 players, I guarantee in 5 years time, if you had the same debate, you would be amazed we even stopped to discuss it. Ramsey is on a different planet imo.[/quote]

No, Ramsey might be on a different planet potential wise. But if we use that argument, then surely Vela should start over Bendtner, because that boy is world world class potential too.

These are the problems...
1. Denilson is playing well.
2. Ramsey is too naive, and yes inexperienced. Denilson is young himself but he has made 50+ games including some on the big stage... Carling Cup final for instance.
3. I question his stamina to go for 90 minutes in such a fast-paced game.

[quote]As for the abilities of the 2 players, I guarantee in 5 years time, if you had the same debate, you would be amazed we even stopped to discuss it. Ramsey is on a different planet imo.[/quote]

In five years time Ramsey will be a top player but ManU are tomorrow.Would it be fair to pitch a 17 year old kid who has hardly played in the Premiership against one of the best teams in Europe who have world class players coming out of their ears.

Points 2 and 3 are valid.

denilson playing well? I don't really agree. He's doing OK for a player his age learning the ropes. He doesn't excite me at all. He gives away possession a lot. He doesn't have a particular ability to beat players. He doesn't appear to me to have a great deal of vision.

Ramsey on the other hand looks amazing. Did you see the 2 passes that lit up the game on wednesday. first was a ball down the right from deep in own half that put nic or RVP thru on goal, can't rememmeber which. vision and weight of pass were spot on. 2nd was a reverse pass down the left to RVP ... again visioon to spot it was amazing for a 17 year old. he's doing things way above his years. I said in my other thread that he does a fwew too many tricks. But add in his ability and desire to shoot, and his delivery (crossing, etc.) and imo there's nobody at the club better.

He won't play tomorrow imo and that may be the right decision ultimately, but if you wanted to gamble on our season, playing him would be a good move .. if we lose doing exactly what we've been doing all season .. then bolder team selection will look in hindsight like the better move

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Swede,

[quote]Would it be fair to pitch a 17 year old kid who has hardly played in the Premiership against one of the best teams in Europe who have world class players coming out of their ears.[/quote]

we did it with fabregas, they did it with giggs .. why not is my view

i actually think at 17 they have less fear than at 18 or 19 when they know what it is all aboout

[quote]if we lose doing exactly what we've been doing all season .[/quote]


If you do today exactly what you did yesterday, don't expect things to change much.

[quote]denilson playing well? I don't really agree. He's doing OK for a player his age learning the ropes. He doesn't excite me at all. He gives away possession a lot. He doesn't have a particular ability to beat players. He doesn't appear to me to have a great deal of vision.[/quote]

This is where we disagree. He has had one or two off-days, but on the whole he has played well. His passing is one of the top 10 in the league last time I looked [2/3 weeks ago] and the one who is losing possession is Cesc. He is good with the ball, he has more assists than Cesc in the league and a couple of goals. He is a decent tackler and more importantly has a decent engine. He isn't my ideal player in there next to Cesc, and maybe he hasn't been the best in his discipline or closing down... but out of him and Cesc, he has been playing better. Which is why I am hopeful of turning it around, because Cesc will turn it on soon... he is a top player and maybe needed a while to get going after the long summer.

Ramsey would be bold, and I agree he is very talented. But so is Wilshere, yet I wouldn't expect him to start tomorrow either if Walcott doesn't make it.

[quote]Points 2 and 3 are valid.

denilson playing well? I don't really agree. He's doing OK for a player his age learning the ropes. He doesn't excite me at all. He gives away possession a lot. He doesn't have a particular ability to beat players. He doesn't appear to me to have a great deal of vision.

Ramsey on the other hand looks amazing. Did you see the 2 passes that lit up the game on wednesday. first was a ball down the right from deep in own half that put ade or RVP thru on goal, can't rememmeber which. vision and weight of pass were spot on. 2nd was a reverse pass down the left to RVP ... again visioon to spot it was amazing for a 17 year old. he's doing things way above his years. I said in my other thread that he does a fwew too many tricks. But add in his ability and desire to shoot, and his delivery (crossing, etc.) and imo there's nobody at the club better.

He won't play tomorrow imo and that may be the right decision ultimately, but if you wanted to gamble on our season, playing him would be a good move .. if we lose doing exactly what we've been doing all season .. then bolder team selection will look in hindsight like the better move [/quote]

Swede...you are so spot on and too too right about what you've said on Ramsey.

What have we got to lose anyway....we've been written off already.

Please let Ramsey play some part in tha game 2moro....yes he's young...but i admire his pace, vision...and footballing brain.

he links up with the 1st teamers in a game like he's bn at Arsenal 4 ever

plesa AW risk him...yes risk him...

[quote]Ramsey would be bold[/quote]

Ramsey has started an important CL qualifier now.

I honestly think he's very prominent in Wenger's mind now for a league start

But I don't expect it to be tomorrow.

What will annoy me is if he falls behnind Eboue when fit. If a player of his ability is getting chances, then fine, but if he's 3rd or 4th in line, his development will be suppressed and his confidence knocked back .. if we agree that ramsey has more potential than eboue .. then if he falls behind eboue in thwe hunt for games .. i'll be very disillusioned with the way we are going

[quote]we've been written off already.[/quote]

By who? Anyone who has written us off is an idiot. If we lose tomorrow, fair enough [though they would still be wrong] but if we win tomorrow then we are very much in it!

[quote]What will annoy me is if he falls behnind Eboue when fit[/quote]

You're not going to like this then Eboue has played well this season, and I would by FAR rather have him start on the wing than Ramsey. Not even a close one in my mind.

He started one semi-important game... this game tomorrow is potentially a season-decider. Strongest team available, no risks. If we lose, then maybe shake things up against Villa... but not tomorrow.

[quote]if we win tomorrow then we are very much in it![/quote]

Agreed we are only 6 behind: however already we are relying on three other teams dropping points and to be honest I see us dropping more as well.You can't write us off yet but we have made it difficult for ourselves.

[quote]but if we win tomorrow then we are very much in it![/quote]

not at all, if we win tomorrow it will be a big boost

but if you look at our season post game even with a win .. we will be in a very poor position .. we are more than 6 points behind technically as the other 3 big clubs have already played each other (twice each I think?) .. united after tomorrow will have played all 3 of us won't the?

we are currently in a diabolical position given our fixtures to date

your optimism is fantastic a lot of the time f3955, but sometimes you have got to wake up to the reality of what is going on .. you can't keep ignoring results and performances and saying that players are getting the job done .. it starts to invalidate your other arguments, many of which are correct

i actually agree we can still be champions .. but not without some major and immediate changes in team selection .. and the problem with picking the same team and winning tomorrow is that it will paper over some cracks ...